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#20361 - 07/29/05 02:15 PM Re: Board rules reminder
Angel24755 Offline

Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 633
Loc: PA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nichiro:

Show me an instance where I pushed any body that they must follow what I say ?
And who says that whatever your body removes from it is a waste product ?<<<<

I have been reading this thread and haven't said a word but I just have to ask...
Nichiro, if you do not have Ichthyosis and you do not have family with Ichthyosis then why exactly are you here??
Fine...you have said your peace and you have told the "wonders of urine". By continuing to argue your point, you are pushing this on other people. You obviously will not be happy until somebody finally agrees to drink their own urine and it doesn't look like that's going to happen. If you simply wanted to mention it in case it would help people here, then fine, you mentioned it. IMO...its time for you to move on. I am here because I have two children with Lamellar Ichthyosis. In my opinion if you are not coping with Ichthyosis, living with somebody that has it, or caring for somebody that has it then you have no "long term" place here.
BTW...if rubbing urine on the body is going to be a "cure" for Ichthyosis then why is it that my 3 year old and my 1 year old with Lamellar who both wear diapers with urine in them most of the day still have issues with Ichthyosis on their diaper area???
I would say that if I fed my children their own urine, that would be considered a form of abuse here in the USA and I would never even think of it...gross gross gross!
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#20362 - 07/29/05 04:38 PM Re: Board rules reminder
ShaunaJ Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/03
Posts: 233
Loc: Ogden,Utah
Angel I was saying that same thing to my hubby last night. If we here in the USA put our childs own urin on them we would get in trouble for abuse. I have 7 year old with Lamellar Ichthyosis and when she was in diapers her diaper area didn't look any better either. I do get tired of these people who do not have ichthyosis or a family member with ichthyosis thinking they have " a cure". Like angel said just say your peace and move on. Don't keep trying to argue your point or push for people to try it. If you don't have ichthyosis or have somebody close to you that does you really have no reason to hang around here. We have all read what you have had to say about AUT if somebody truely wanted to try it they can email you.
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Shauna Johnson
Independant Consultant
Cookie Lee Jewelry
"Choose a job that you LOVE and
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#20363 - 07/29/05 04:54 PM Re: Board rules reminder
Nichiro Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Detroit
Angel24755,
You wrote,
"I would say that if I fed my children their own urine, that would be considered a form of abuse here in the USA and I would never even think of it...gross gross gross!"

And you would gladly agree to inject yourself with "UROKINASE" made from human urine.
Are you prepared to drag your scientists of drug companies to court for feeding you with filth?

Your own scientists are now desperately looking towards native medicines as they have exhausted all possible avenues in search for curing sideeffects caused by modern medicines.

AUT is a part of YOGA that the whole world has come to value.

How do you think that AIDS came about ?
How many of westerners ever asked their parent's doctors as to what medicines my Mom or dad took when she was carrying you ?
Why don't you think for once that your parents might be allergic to some medication which resulted in your having this body condition ?
I have a brother and a sister duo suffering from worst case of Ichthyosis in my relative's home. I very well know what it means. So do not ever ask me the question as to why I am here in this forum.
I have given them the same suggestions about AUT.
Just like you , they also need time to let this idea of AUT therapy sink in.

You wrote, that who in your family suffers from this dreaded condition ?
Can't you make out now from my spirited and concerned postings that your pain is felt by me and your pain is my pain.
Only if I could show my real feelings to you guys.
If you ever read about what people do to get rid of cancer, you will feel that AUT is cake walk.
Just last month I read about an ESKIMO therapy to eat very old rotten meat which stinks so badly that to eat so much putrified meat would make even a scavanger like hyena turn away.
And yet people did just that , ate it and have been cured of some form of cancer. I
am sure that if one wants to try AUT they will try it.
I am not pushing any body to do it.
I am just putting up a case, a possibility.

Nichiro

Ps.
You gave me an example of two of your children about Nappy full of urine.
Let me tell you that there is a method that needs to be followed in AUT application on body.The urine that is to be applied is first urine of the day and not any time urine.
_________________________
Use what you have
You'll get what you don't have.

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#20364 - 07/29/05 04:58 PM Re: Board rules reminder
Nichiro Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Detroit
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nichiro:
[b]Angel24755, and ShaunaJ

You wrote,
"I would say that if I fed my children their own urine, that would be considered a form of abuse here in the USA and I would never even think of it...gross gross gross!"

And you would gladly agree to inject yourself with "UROKINASE" made from human urine.
Are you prepared to drag your scientists of drug companies to court for feeding you with filth?

Your own scientists are now desperately looking towards native medicines as they have exhausted all possible avenues in search for curing sideeffects caused by modern medicines.

AUT is a part of YOGA that the whole world has come to value.

How do you think that AIDS came about ?
How many of westerners ever asked their parent's doctors as to what medicines my Mom or dad took when she was carrying you ?
Why don't you think for once that your parents might be allergic to some medication which resulted in your having this body condition ?
I have a brother and a sister duo suffering from worst case of Ichthyosis in my relative's home.The girl who is elder is having it for over 20 years and her brother is having it for 12 years now. I know what it does to a family financially psychologically and socially. I, very well know what it means. So do not ever ask me the question as to why I am here in this forum.
I have given them the same suggestions about AUT.
Just like you , they also need time to let this idea of AUT therapy sink in.

You wrote, that who in your family suffers from this dreaded condition ?
Can't you make out now from my spirited and concerned postings that your pain is felt by me and your pain is my pain.
Only if I could show my real feelings to you guys.
If you ever read about what people do to get rid of cancer, you will feel that AUT is cake walk.
Just last month I read about an ESKIMO therapy to eat very old rotten meat which stinks so badly that to eat so much putrified meat would make even a scavanger like hyena turn away.
And yet people did just that , ate it and have been cured of some form of cancer. I
am sure that if one wants to try AUT they will try it.
I am not pushing any body to do it.
I am just putting up a case, a possibility.

Nichiro

Ps.
You gave me an example of two of your children about Nappy full of urine.
Let me tell you that there is a method that needs to be followed in AUT application on body.The urine that is to be applied is first urine of the day and not any time urine.

(Dunno how this piece became bold lettered)



[This message has been edited by Nichiro (edited July 29, 2005).]
_________________________
Use what you have
You'll get what you don't have.

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#20365 - 07/29/05 05:50 PM Re: Board rules reminder
Sofie Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 118
Loc: Switzerland / USA
Nichiro:

There is one point I must admit I agree with you: western medicine has not all the answers but from my experience alternative medicine hasn't either - nature and the human body are such a great creation that we probably will never have all the answers.

I work in a hospital that offers both 'kinds' and my experience is that in some cases western medicine helps in some cases alternative medicine helps and in some cases it needs both. I strongly believe that it is a very, very personal choice every individual has to make, as it is also linked to how an individual views the world, human beings, nature etc.

As you noted correctly this section of the board is meant for the discussion of alternative therapies. It is always interesting to hear about new options, ideas and experiences - this is what this bb is meant for. I think we all heard (or read) that you believe that AUT helps. I think you also understod by now that most of us are not really thinking about trying it. Please understand that your opinion was heard and that your opinion is respected but that you are also expected to respect the opinion of the bb users. I am wondering what your motive is to continue this discussion as you do not seem to add new aspects to it. On contrary, I have the impression that your posts become more and more aggressive and I strongly feel that this is not the right place for such exchange - I personally find it a waste of energy. This bb is meant for support, encouragement and constructive discussion.

Sofie

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#20366 - 07/30/05 05:21 AM Re: Board rules reminder
Jodyl888 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/06/05
Posts: 3
Loc: Sydney, Australia
To the person that wrote "there have been people pushing Chinese medicine (etc., etc.,)...and quite frankly I am tired of it".
I am a qualified practitioner of Chinese medicine (Bach. of Chin. med in TCM & MPH) and a sufferer of quite severe EHK. Without combined knowledge of the benefits and failures of BOTH Western medicine and Chinese medicine, diet, climate influence and lifestyle approaches, I would not be able to manage my condition so well and keep myself relatively blister and infection free.
This is a forum for people with icthyosis to share important information. i have never met anyone else with this condition and neither have most of the dermatologists I have seen. Although we may rely on our local pharmacists for creams etc., our own experiences are probably the most impotrtant to others with this condition. Therefore people with EHK and other forms of icthyosis should be able to talk about whatever product they want if they think it may help others.
There is a section on this site for 'Retinoids' where anyone can mention any drug they feel free to because they want to know more about it. Is this free advertising for the drug companies? Possibly but not necessarily. If we can mention their products, we can talk about anything else. However, I don't agree either that people who are not affected by icthyosis should try and sell things for their own profit.

I have taken Retinoids and they have had disastrous consequences for me personally, and they do potentially have very nasty side effects. I am certainly not an advocate ofr this type of medication. However i do recognise the benefit for some, and it is important to understand what works for one person, might not be good for another. I don't accept that a lot of these drugs necessarily have more importance than some forms of 'alternative' medicine. Neither Western or Chinese medicine has all the answers.
Incidentally, Chinese herbal medicine for this sort of condition is based on individualised formulas, so there is no marketable product. It is important whether its a GP or practitioner of Chinese medicine, to consult someone who has some knowledge of this condition.
Once again we are all here to help each other.

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#20367 - 07/30/05 07:03 AM Re: Board rules reminder
Nichiro Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Detroit
Hello Sofie,

You wrote,


"I work in a hospital that offers both 'kinds' and my experience is that in some cases western medicine helps in some cases alternative medicine helps
I am wondering what your motive is to continue this discussion as you do not seem to add new aspects to it. On contrary, I have the impression that your posts become more and more aggressive and I strongly feel that this is not the right place for such exchange - I personally find it a waste of energy. This bb is meant for support, encouragement and constructive discussion."

Sofie


Sofie,

I read with interest what you wrote.

First thing I want to ask you is,
"Does your hospital offer AUT ?"
If your answer is NO, then I request you to first know about AUT.

When I first posted on Alternative Therapy section, people immediately condamned to very idea even before they understood or read about this ancient yoga branch .
Not even a single individual ever asked to discuss this topic with an open mind.
In such a case, how can I put newer aspect and positive things about AUT before anybody ?
Am I being aggressive ?
Oh No...On the contrary people should know the difference between being Aggresive and being Passionate in putting forth their point of view.
If you think I am being aggresive, then I beg your pardon. Truth is always naked and painful to digest.
Truth is that Western medicine is a suppressive therapy . It suppresses the symptoms. We ehould look at curative therapies.

A person from Australia has written about chinese medicine. That too is a very ancient form of treating diseases. People survived for 100,000 years without any antibiotics.
They relied only on Ayurvedic, chinese or Tribal medicines depending upon where they lived.
Whereas in western modern world,
after the advent of Antibiotics, within 60 years, the whole human population of the world has become immune to action of such medicines to a greater orr lesser extent.
Why ? AIDS i IMHO is the direct result of such western medicines being used without totally understanding the nature of human body , its reaction to such medication and such things.
Why do Ayurvedic, chinese and Tribal medicines are now looked upon by western medicine people to find answers for diseases now.?

All I ask is HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND DISCUSS THE WHOLE AUT AT PEACE.
Only question and answers when discussed can bring forthe truth and benefits.

Nichiro



[This message has been edited by Nichiro (edited July 30, 2005).]
_________________________
Use what you have
You'll get what you don't have.

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#20368 - 07/30/05 03:31 PM Re: Board rules reminder
Angel24755 Offline

Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 633
Loc: PA
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nichiro:

>>I have a brother and a sister duo suffering from worst case of Ichthyosis in my relative's home.The girl who is elder is having it for over 20 years and her brother is having it for 12 years now. I know what it does to a family financially psychologically and socially. I, very well know what it means. So do not ever ask me the question as to why I am here in this forum.<<

Then I must ask...
In your original post about AUT you said (and I quote) "I came across Ichthyosis for the first time 2 months back".
So...you have only known this brother and sister duo for 2 months?? You never mentioned family or children with the disease in your introduction...you said you came across Ichthyosis and wondered if AUT could work with Ichthyosis.
Nobody here has expressed interest in AUT since your original post but yet you continue to argue and push it which leads me to believe that you actually enjoy the fight. I have my routine for my children down pat and I don't push it on anyone here. You only have to mention it once...you have said it over and over and over again. Obviously nobody here is interested right now. It seems like you are desperate just for the attention and enjoy the feud. I went to the web sites you provided and yet I have no disire to rub urine on my children or force them to drink it (which as I mentioned before would be considered child abuse by me and most in the USA). That being said...I am entilted to my opinion as are you but what you are not entitled to do is shove it down our throats. Enough is enough.
If you are really here because you know this brother and sister duo (which isn't clear to me if this is your family or just people living with your family) then sit back, read the other posts and stop the fight. It's getting old. If you are simply interested in AUT and not interested in anything else this board has to offer then go start or find a board for AUT. I know myself that I will not be replying to any of your future posts involving AUT and suggest others who are disgusted by it to do the same. We are feeding your need to argue and to me that just doesn't make sense. You are turning these peaceful boards that I myself find a haven into chaos.

One other thing I would like to address...
You wrote:
"Can't you make out now from my spirited and concerned postings that your pain is felt by me and your pain is my pain."

Don't even claim to know the pain that is felt by me, my husband, my children, or anyone else on this board. You have no idea what we have been through...you have no idea what it feels like to think your child is going to be a healthy baby and have them born with this disease. You have no idea what we go through on a daily basis and you have no idea what a person with Ichthyosis feels like. You don't feel my pain and my pain is not your pain...you don't know me and you don't no my family. You crossed the line with that statement and I will be the first to say it and I am sure others here certainly agree.
If you were really concerned as you said, then you would be satisfied with the fact that most people here are content with lotions, ointments, and modern medicine.
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#20369 - 07/30/05 03:48 PM Re: Board rules reminder
LauraAnn Offline
Member

Registered: 04/01/04
Posts: 220
Loc: Chicago, IL, USA
Yes!! I was actually going to suggest the same, that we all ignore the future posts and stop replying, it's just fueling his need to argue......we obviously aren't getting anywhere by saying our peace, he will continue to pull out something in our posts to shoot down or argue.......thanks for posting this.....I still wish we could block unwanted and argumentative postings from people who aren't struggling with this personally......
Laura
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*Laura
Mom to: Joshua (9yrs) and Matthew (4yrs) both affected with recessive x-linked ichthyosis

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#20370 - 07/30/05 05:05 PM Re: Board rules reminder
Nichiro Offline
Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Detroit
Angel24755,Laura Ann

Yes, I did come across these two children 2 months back and it is a fact.

My daughter wedded in that family and they have two
children I mentioned.

My cousine is neighbour to them for over 40 years and they know the family so well.He also told me about this ICH problem.

My daughter's FIL and his brother who has these ICH children told me the story of suffering which was so painful to hear and see for myself.

Why should I want to fight ?
What do I get fighting with you all. Do I not understand what you all have gone through so far all these years?
If I can't understand that and feel the pain and suffering you have and are going through then I am not a human being.
I am preconditioned to feel other's pain and suffering as my own. Believe me or not but it is a fact.

You wrote that this board is a Heaven and I am turning it into chaotic hell.
So be it. There are certain things in life that cannot be changed . If you want to gloat in your pain , I have no objection. Only thing is I will feel that someone somewhere did not try something that would have helped.

But Truth can never be suppressed.If not today, tomorrow, when western world accepts orient's thinking in totality, your people will Patent even that.

Rest in peace .

Nichiro
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Use what you have
You'll get what you don't have.

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