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#15924 - 04/07/08 11:33 PM lamellar or vulgaris?
pixie Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I'm pretty sure I have lamellar ich, not vulgaris. I was diagnosed with vulgaris 17 years ago, but my research has led me to believe it is in fact lamellar. Let me know what you think:

I was a collodian baby, I don't sweat (very easily), and my hands have deep wrinkles and a shiny appearance.

But, too be honest, I'm not sure I really understand the difference. I've heard that with vulgaris you can sweat, why? And from what I've read Lamellar sounds worse? But I think my skin looks great (at this point in my life, and thanks to some great tips I've found on this board)

I would see a dermatologist, but this is Alberta, and it would take months to get an appointment. My past experiences with derms have been more than dissapointing.

Thanks.

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#15925 - 04/08/08 12:30 AM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
Promiseland_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 536
It sounds like you have lamellar, based on collodian baby situation. Collodian baby is practically unheard of for Vulgaris.

The sweating case is more complicated for the following reasons: Yes, sweating not only comes easily for a vast majority of Vulgaris cases, but many do not have any kind of sweat disorder at all. In the mildest of mildest cases of Vulgaris, there is only mosaic lines in the lower legs between the archilles tendons and the calves. Up the severity spectrum, there would be mosaic shins and mild scales and flaking on limited parts of the body. Maybe rough palms also. The skin on vast majority of the body has no scales even during the winter. These are classic Vulgaris, 90%+ of people with Vulgaris and 90%+ of all people with ich. However, there are rare cases of Vulgaris which are much more severe. Scales can appear everywhere and there may be a sweat disorder for prickly itch, especially in the winter. But these people can still sweat in the summer and scales may virtually disappear in that season. But if someone with severe vulgaris were to live in the harsh winters of Canada, his or her symptoms, the severity of the scales, etc., may come close to the severity of symptoms of lamellar.

Also, with Vulgaris, there may be many people in extended family who have symptoms.

So, if you were a collodian baby and have great difficulty sweating in the summer, and may not have many relatives with symptoms, you most likely have lamellar.

Genetic testing is your best bet. Like you, I have not had good experience with derms in the past. At your age and my age, the proper diagnosis may not be as crucial if you have learned how to manage your skin. It would be more crucial for a parent with a child with ich to get the right diagnosis.

Hope this helps a bit.
_________________________
Don't ever lose hope when
there is a promised land, and "sweat" dreams

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#15926 - 04/08/08 06:48 PM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
pixie Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
That does help, thank you. It sounds like I have Vulgaris actually. I assumed I was a collodian baby because my parents insist I was born in the caul. Being born in the caul is so rare, but being a collodian baby is equally so.

My mother has passed away so it's difficult to say.

I live in the northernmost city in Canada. I'm finishing a degree here but do not plan on starting my career here. I'd like to move to Toronto, which is rather humid.

Oh, another thing, as a baby I overheated often, and consequently spent a great deal of time in the hospital. The doctors were clueless as to the cause. I've since concluded it was my decreased ability to sweat.

I turn beet red in the heat, alcohol and spicy food can have a similiar effect.

Do people with vulgaris have deep lines on their hands?

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#15927 - 04/08/08 07:08 PM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
Promiseland_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 536
Hands: I have severe Vulgaris, relative to other members of my immediate and extended family. My palms are rough and dry all the time. They never sweat. The tops of the hands do not look unusual in any way. There can be scales build-up that would require me to rub off. In hotter climates and seasons I use lotion rarely. In colder climates and seasons in the past, there would be terrible splitting of the skin or cracking on the tips or joints of the fingers and occasionally on the webbing between the fingers. Hand lotion would be mandatory to manage this risk.

I can overheat too but not in the manner you describe. I never feel fatigue or fainting. I would get a terrible prickly itch which would stop if I cool down or break a sweat. The risk would be high when the scales build-up in the winter was bad (when I was living outside of the subtropics) or when I work in strong air-conditioning or drink too much beer regularly.

Good luck to you in Toronto as you start your career.
_________________________
Don't ever lose hope when
there is a promised land, and "sweat" dreams

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#15928 - 04/08/08 11:19 PM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
wva Offline
Member

Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 401
Loc: Detroit, MI, USA
I have Lamellar ich. But, I was not a collodian baby. Just to give you an idea of what symptoms I have so that you can compare. rudy (reddish) complexion, wrinkly shiny hands, thick yellowish skin on palms of hands and bottoms of feet, extremely low heat tolerance,(unlike some people with lamellar I also have a painfully low cold tolerance too), experienced severe childhood sunburns and blisters from sunburns, flaky scalp, and light to heavy flaking on entire body that varies from day to day but flakes worse and cracks worse in the winter months. I hope this helps some.

I forgot to add that I also overheat quickly and I barely sweat like on my nose a little, not enough to help me in the heat. The climate that my skin does best is in the southeast moist climates with beaches like Myrtle Beach as long as I avoid the extreme heat and the direct sun.

[This message has been edited by wva (edited April 09, 2008).]

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#15929 - 04/09/08 01:02 AM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
TMPOL_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 138
Loc: Collingwood, Ontario, Canada
Hey Pixie,

We are in Collingwood(just moved from Toronto two years ago) If and when you do go to Toronto, you will find the Dr's there know a lot more. Myles (son with Lamellar) has a great Derm at Sick Kids and if you would like i will ask her to reccommend a Dr that treats adults with the condition. She is young and very knowledgeable, i feel blessed that we have such great care available in Ontario. Also you can get genetic testing. Myles just had his done (it took 4 months for results) and it seems that he carry's two TGM1 genes, one from me and the other from my husband. He has a mild case of Lamellar. You can see pics of him that I posted last month. When do you plan to move to Toronto? There are a few people in T.O that i am in contact with that have Lamellar. Would love to meet you someday.
All the best
Tara

------------------
Myles' Mom
Myles born a collodion baby
Lamellar Ichthyosis
_________________________
Myles' Mom
Myles born a collodion baby
Lamellar Ichthyosis

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#15930 - 04/10/08 04:20 AM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
pixie Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 34
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
I've never had any real support about my skin. I am truly touched. I've always felt very separate from the people around me because of my skin. It's amazing to feel connected even if it's over the Internet. So, I guess I want to say that I love this forum. Thank you.

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#15931 - 04/10/08 03:33 PM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
Sarah Helen Offline
Member

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 383
Loc: Twin Cities, Probably North of...
Hi Pixie!
I just wanted to share that I feel the same way about this forum. Growing up in Winnipeg did not expose me to others with ich so I know that isolated feeling.

Good luck with the move and I hope you like T.O. (I went to school in London and had my fair share of S ON)

------------------
Sarah
35 with EHK
_________________________
Sarah & Son
EHK & ARCI
"Today is the Tomorrow that you worried about Yesterday, and all is well"

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#15932 - 05/10/08 06:49 PM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
nigerfamine Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/10/08
Posts: 3
Loc: england uk
Try Black Seed oil by iman products.
Its cheap it works and is recommended by prophets, and scientists. http://www.theislamicestablishment.com/Product_Details.asp?depID=18&catID=77&pid=3120
BLACK SEED OIL
An article by Hans Wagner
Recently scientists around the world have confirmed the anti-bacterial and anti-mycotic effects of black seed oil. Health practitioners in various countries around the world are using the oil against inflamation of all sorts as well as fungi infections. Even a remarkable reduction of blood sugar levels has been found by scientists. Black Seed extracts have been found help tostimulate bone marrow and immune cells, so writes the scientists of the Cancer Immuno-Biology Laboratory and adding that it raises the interferon production, protects normal cells against cell destroying effects of viruses, destroys tumour cells and raises the number of anti-bodies producing B cells.
All these functions make the Black Seed oil the ideal candidate for the prevention and treatment of cancer. Scientists are now busy finding the effects of the Black Seed oil in regard to various other human health conditions. Dr.Med.Peter Schleicher, an immunologist, in Munich who in 1986 happened to be nominated the youngest member of the World Academy of Scientists, examined black seed oil in his institute to find new therapies for chronic illness and its effect. His findings are identical to those in previous studies by earlier researchers. Schleicher says, by using Black Seed oil, valuable unsaturated fatty acids, for example Linoleic and Gammalinolen acids, get into the organism. By that it is possible to reach a synthesis of important immune regulating substances derived from Prostaglandin E1. Linoleic acid stabilizes the cell membranes and Prostaglandin has the effect of inhibiting inflamation. By that the immune reactions are stopped which cause the illnesses and which otherwise could be the start of many many chronic illnesses like acne and hayfever right up to cancer. In addition, the excessive T-cell function of the person suffering from allergies are stabilized through the substance in black seed oil and the abnormally rising immune reactions through supressed anti-bodies. The excessive immune system is normalized and the large cell degranulation decreased.

Studies also testify that an immune system which has gone wrong can again be regulated by the strong effect of the oil. Schleicher, meanwhile, has tested the effect of the oil on 600 patients. As a result he confirms the cure for allergies at about 70% of the patients. Amongst them are allergies against pollen and dust, acne and neuro-dermatological illnesses, asthma patients, etc.. who generally have a weak resistence and are prone to suffer from infections. For that reason Dr.Schleicher in Munich is going to include the oil with his preventative treatment against colds and influenza.
In the Middle East and South Asia, this oil has been used for thousands of years as a remedy for all sorts of allergies, inflamation and menstruation problems, boosting moral, depression; but especially against bronchitis, asthma and neuro-dermatitis as well as poor digestion and even impotency. The Prophet Mohammad (s) stated in his "Hadith" that black seed oil cures every illness except death. No wander then that a little bottle of the oil was even found in the tomb of the legedary Pharoah Tutankhamen..!
In the West the effect of the oil has been used for a long time against wind, dysentry, stomach and lungdisease, jaundice, diuretic problems and to increase nursing mother's milk. Due to the triumphant advancesin chemistry the oil has been forgotten until recently. According to Dr. Schleicher the reason why this oil is so exceptional is that its component parts act in unison to produce an optimum effect for so many complaints. But one has to make sure that only the pure and tested oil is being used.
Schleicher's colleagues have reacted very positively after the publication about his success with patients who haveused the oil. Professor G. Rietmuller, Director of Institute for immunology at the University of Munich believes that this plant extract works positively on the immune system and could be used as a bio-regulator. Professor Michael Meurer of the Dermatology Clinic in Munich has for a long time been convinced about the success of this oil. From his experience the oil help stop inflamation and helps with neurodermitis.
At the International Cancer Congress in New Delhi last Autumn the anti-tumour effect of black cumin oil has been introduced to many scientists and doctors.
Translated from an article by Hans Wagner.

Taken from: http://www.amazingherbs.com/arblacseedoi.html

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#15933 - 05/11/08 01:44 PM Re: lamellar or vulgaris?
Hearsay Offline


Member

Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 1449
Loc: Richmond, VA, USA
AAAAAND...we have another scammer. Lovely.

Pixie, of course we can't tell you for certain what you are dealing with, but typically, LI shows up as the collodion membrane at birth, then either very fine scales everywhere where little dandruff flakes fall off everywhere you go or you have a layer of flaky skin that looks like tissue paper stuck all over, or you have thick plate scale that looks sort of dirty around the edges of each scale. It's all over the body. Some of the affected have thin or no hair because the scaling blocks the hair follicles. The kids, especially, are prone to overheating, and finally, there is nearly always ectropion - the lower eyelids pull down and show the red underneath, often causing dry eyes or long term problems with the cornea if you don't use eye petroleum.

Vulgaris is fundamentally different. I've never seen a really bad case, as Promiseland says he has. The majority have a fairly mild problem that is often mistaken for eczema. Very fine flaking everywhere, controllable with a loofah, except the shins and forearms, where the scale is thicker. The hands and feet grow deep callouses and crack and bleed on the heels and around the toes and the palms.

I think the sweating thing applies to all of us. Those with more severe types usually have extra skin blocking up the pores so sweating is difficult or impossible, while vulgaris is comparatively normal.

[This message has been edited by Hearsay (edited May 11, 2008).]
_________________________
Jennifer
Ichthyosis-en-Confetti Type 2
Husband, Nathan - 10, Elliot - 7, Oliver - 4, all affected.
I also have an unaffected daughter, age 8.


email: jennifer at confettiskin dot com
facebook - find me on "ichthyosis mommy spot" or "friends of ichthyosis"

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